expert interview Archives - Mind Tools https://www.mindtools.com/blog/tag/expert-interview-2/ Mind Tools Mon, 27 Nov 2023 16:29:14 +0000 en-GB hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.3.1 The Centennial Mindset: My Expert Interview With Alex Hill https://www.mindtools.com/blog/the-centennial-mindset-my-expert-interview-with-alex-hill/ Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:36:13 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=38768 “Centennial” organizations deliver benefits for communities and society as a whole, as well as for themselves.

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For five years at the end of the last century, my grandfather delighted in being the oldest living All Black. The All Blacks are New Zealand’s national rugby union team, often regarded as the most successful sports team in history. 

As it happened, my grandpa only played one match for them before injury put paid to his rugby career. That was in 1921, but he wore this affiliation like a badge of honor right up until his death at the age of 99.  

The All Blacks were revered a hundred years ago, and they still are. This makes them a perfect case study for Professor Alex Hill, co-founder and director of the Centre for High Performance, a collaboration between Kingston University London, Duke University, London Business School, and the University of Oxford. 

Building Centennial Organizations

For more than a decade, he’s researched organizations that have outperformed their peers for over 100 years. In addition to the New Zealand All Blacks, he’s studied NASA, Eton College and the Royal Shakespeare Company, among other household names. 

Hill has identified 12 habits they share, looking at how they analyze success and failure, recruit great talent, and create new products and ideas. He lays these out in his new book, “Centennials,” and offers advice for others who aspire to such longevity today. 

In this clip from our Expert Interview, Hill reflects on how corporate behavior can embed itself from generation to generation. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

The How and Why of Centennial Organizations

Hill acknowledges that not all organizations are in it for the long haul. Some don’t want to last 100 years, so for them, a focus on short-term returns is appropriate. 

“A lot of management thinking comes from business, and actually those principles and ideas are great if you want to burn bright, but then disappear,” he says. “But if you don’t want to do that and you want to build something that’s going to last, then you have to think in a very different way.” 

And this is a worthy goal, he believes, as “centennial” organizations deliver benefits for communities and society as a whole, as well as for themselves. 

“They help us solve bigger, more complex questions, things like climate change or poverty or health or education, where actually you’re building a collective knowledge in an institution that is growing over time. And you’re solving a problem which can’t just be solved quickly, where actually it might take many decades or many generations to actually work out how to fix it,” he explains. 

The 12 habits in Hill’s book provide a framework for organizations with such ambitions. The first six help to build a stable core, identifying a strong purpose for the work, developing stewardship, and fostering an open attitude toward the world. The last six focus on what he calls the “disruptive edge.” These habits encourage new ideas that propel organizations forward. 

The Power of Performing in Public

I was particularly struck by habit five, “perform in public,” about harnessing the power of strangers. Within an organization, it’s hard to see what you’re doing well – or not so well. Whereas, if you perform to a trusted stranger, you can learn a lot from their feedback, which may include fresh ideas from the outside, too. And of course, when we’re being watched, we almost always raise our game. 

“They’ve done lots of different studies around this, [and] they found that if you have a stranger present in a group, the group feels that they need to perform better,” says Hill. “So they will often be more rigorous in their discussion or their debates, they will explain things more clearly, they make [fewer] mistakes, and they often perform at a higher level because of that.”  

As a freelance producer, I’ve seen this firsthand. Often, I’m the stranger, going into organizations to record a podcast or interview employees. In these situations, I’ve noticed that people do tend to make an effort to act as professionally as they can. 

A few years ago, I produced a series of educational podcasts for a U.K.-based university. Each episode consisted of a roundtable discussion between academics teaching on a particular degree course. As soon as the microphones were set up, all the participants switched into “performance” mode. 

They listened attentively to one another, articulated their views with clarity and verve, and sometimes asked to redo something if they felt it could have been expressed better. If I hadn’t been there, the discussion may have been a bit more relaxed. But it might not have been as useful for the audience of students. 

Outside Observation Brings Centennial Results

Hill says he’s seen performance work in all sorts of situations. 

“You start to realize that every high-performing organization has a performance, and sometimes it happens very naturally, like an Olympic Games or a World Cup or a moon landing – this moment where they have to really perform,” he says.  

“But other organizations where it doesn’t happen naturally will artificially create it. So, like the Royal College of Art has open studios, where strangers can walk through, or they’ll get students to do shows where people can come.” 

It’s an effective way for organizations to practice the mindset they need to last for 100 years. 

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How to Find a Right-Fit Job: My Expert Interview With André Martin  https://www.mindtools.com/blog/how-to-find-a-right-fit-job-my-expert-interview-with-andre-martin/ Thu, 28 Sep 2023 12:24:19 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=38497 For a long-lasting, fulfilling experience at work, it pays to think carefully before applying for a job.

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I met a recent graduate the other day, who told me that her friends were sending out résumés for every advertised role they could possibly see themselves doing. Hundreds of them – scattershot.

It brought to mind my recent Expert Interview with organizational psychologist André Martin, whose book "Wrong Fit, Right Fit" encourages people to take exactly the opposite approach when developing their careers.

Writing With Our Dominant Hand

In his view, for a long-lasting, fulfilling experience at work, it pays to think carefully before applying for a job. That gives us a better chance of finding an opportunity that actually fits – which he says feels like writing "with our dominant hand" as opposed to "our non-dominant hand."

This matters for employers and companies as much as for candidates, Martin told me – and now more than ever. Here's a clip from our Expert Interview. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

Martin's book is a practical guide to help people fit at work, not just "fit in." Because there's a difference, Martin says.

Fit feels natural and authentic, while "fitting in is when you change the way you do work or the way you show up at work in an effort to be successful, be seen, or belong." He calls this "wrong fit," and it feels "like a slog."

Self-Reflection Is Key for Finding Fit

To avoid wrong fit, Martin recommends embarking on eight "excursions," which he lays out in his book. These are in-depth exercises exploring personal values, motivation, goals, attributes, and more. After working through these excursions, you'll be better placed to find a job and workplace that fits.

"When talent talks about wrong-fit experiences, the thing they wish they would have done almost universally was more self-reflection before they started looking for a job," Martin observes. "So the excursions were really meant to get us to pause, take three steps back, open our eyes really wide, and ask the question of 'What are we looking for beyond a job title?'"

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The Story of a Wrong-Fit Workplace

This reminds me of a former job where I was uncomfortable from the minute the workday started to the second it ended, every single day. I was a reporter for an international newswire based in a Latin American capital city. I'd been approached to apply for the job, and I took it partly because I felt flattered.

I had done none of the self-reflection advocated by Martin, and from day one, it was clearly a wrong fit in all the obvious metrics: how people worked together, solved problems, prioritized, managed time, and measured progress.

Among my worst memories of this job was the pointless presenteeism. All the reporters were required to be at their desks for 10 hours a day, on rolling start times of either 7 a.m., 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. We were covering financial markets, so most of the reporting had to be done when markets were open. When they were closed, there wasn't a whole lot to do, but we had to be there anyway.

One of my colleagues spent hours on the phone to friends most days, bending their ears about how she was still at her desk late into the evening, or there super early. She implied she was ludicrously busy, mistaking being at work with actually working.

As well as the schedule constraints, there was a presumption of incompetence that I never understood. Once, one of my colleagues was proofing an article I'd written, and he mused aloud: "You really need to make fewer mistakes, Rachel."

Startled, I asked him for some examples in the article he was reading. He could only point to a single typo. I still don't know how this gave the impression of multiple errors.

Know Your Motivation

One of Martin's excursions to find fit helps you identify the main driver for your career. He asks: are you motivated by craft, company or cause?

My job at the financial newswire would have been a great fit for someone who wanted to have a global media company on their résumé, or someone who was passionate about financial markets and their influence on economic growth.

But my primary motivation is craft, so for me, this job was a terrible fit. There was no scope for me to develop my skills, and my confidence took a battering. I left within a few weeks, with a huge sigh of relief.

My next role was as bureau chief of a U.S.-based business magazine, based in the same city. I could work from home, keep my own hours, and write articles on whatever I thought would interest the readers. My colleagues valued what I brought to the company, and together we produced some good work.

A bit of self-reflection before applying for a job can save a lot of hassle and heartache, and lead to a much better, longer-lasting fit, with zero need to fit in.

Listen to the Full Story

You can listen to or read my full 30-minute interview with André Martin if you're a Mind Tools member or if your employer is a Mind Tools for Business licensee.

If you're not already a member, join Mind Tools now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or you can find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching our Expert Interview blog topic.

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Communicating and Making Change: My Expert Interview With Sally Susman  https://www.mindtools.com/blog/communicating-making-change-expert-interview-with-sally-susman/ Thu, 24 Aug 2023 12:46:13 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=38313 "The best leaders, the ones who make the most change, know that communications is not a soft skill but a rock-hard competency." -Sally Susman

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When Pfizer produced an effective COVID-19 vaccine in record time, the relief was felt around the globe. But what was it like to work inside the company at that time – and communicating its work to an inquisitive world? 

In her book, “Breaking Through,” Pfizer Executive Vice-President and Chief Corporate Affairs Officer Sally Susman shares her experiences as the public face of the pharmaceutical giant during the pandemic. 

In our latest Expert Interview, she told me how that felt and what she learned from it. 

Here's an excerpt. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

But “Breaking Through” isn’t just about Pfizer’s vaccine innovations. Subtitled “Communicating to Open Minds, Move Hearts, and Change the World,” Susman’s book sets out 10 principles that lead to “breakthrough communication.” 

They’re based on what she has observed during her own stellar career, which spans jobs on Capitol Hill and senior communications roles at Estée Lauder Companies and American Express. 

Susman says, “The key point is that the best leaders, the ones who make the most change, know that communications is not a soft skill but a rock-hard competency and they respect it as such. It's as important to them as finance, sales, quality, manufacturing, etc.” 

Each of her 10 principles has its own chapter, which “starts usually with something that went wrong,” Susman explains. This opens into a discussion of why the principle is important to effective leadership communication, with real-life examples of situations and people who demonstrate it well. 

Inspired By the Movie, "The Intern"

For instance, in the chapter titled, “Am I Boring You? Stay Curious, Be Creative,” we learn what happened when Susman hired a senior intern one summer.  

“This is an idea I borrowed from the movie ‘The Intern’,” she recalls. “An elderly gentleman who has recently retired is bored with his retirement and feeling somewhat on the margins, so he signs up to be an intern at a small company run by the actress Anne Hathaway – she plays the role of the boss.”  

“I watched this movie while flying to New York on a business trip and, halfway through the movie, tears were rolling down my face because who wouldn’t love to have this kind of a person in the office?” 

Inspired, Susman approached Paul Critchlow, recently retired former head of communications at Merrill Lynch, and he readily agreed to be one of her summer interns. He insisted on the same pay as the other, much younger interns, and sat with them in the open-plan office.  

This arrangement worked well for everyone involved. The other interns benefited from Critchlow’s vast experience, Susman had a valuable “sounding board” on hand, and for Critchlow himself, it beat the often slow pace of retired life. 

She said, “To my amazement this became a viral thing and we were on the cover of Fast Company magazine, we were invited to speak at the South by Southwest conference. It was a wonderful example of letting your creativity and your curiosity about things lead you. It led to great outcomes for Paul, for me, for Pfizer.” 

Leaders Taking the Stage

I’ve never encountered a senior intern, but I have seen the benefits of other leadership tips laid out in “Breaking Through.” 

In fact, I was involved in one project that modeled several of them at once: an internal leadership event at a large multinational company. I’d been hired to produce content that captured the event, to be disseminated to all employees. 

In select countries where the company operated, senior leaders were asked to deliver a personal TED-style talk, without a script, to a live audience of their colleagues.  

As an external observer, I was fascinated to see how the two U.K. leaders approached this challenge. One chose to speak about their childhood. The other picked a difficult ethical dilemma from their days as a rookie executive. Neither of them found it easy. They'd rehearsed tirelessly, honing their private stories with the help of a specialist coach, and tried hard to get comfortable with their vulnerability. 

When the day of the event arrived, the stakes felt high. Respect and reputations were at risk. The ornate hired hall was packed with expectant colleagues, who listened intently as their bosses stood alone in the spotlight, sharing their mistakes and learning from previously hidden aspects of their lives.  

Each 15-minute talk was followed by a Q&A with the audience. It was remarkable to see how the sincerity and authenticity of these “TED Talks” encouraged others to open up, express empathy, and make new connections.

Principles for Breaking Through By Communicating 

By my calculations, these brave leaders were demonstrating at least six of Susman’s 10 principles for “breaking through.” 

They channeled their intention – the first principle in the book – spending time and effort on figuring out exactly what they wanted to say to that audience, and why. 

They mustered the courage for candor – the second principle – pushing through discomfort to share true stories that could help other people in the telling. 

They took time to pause and prepare, to perfect their pitch (“the tone and the quality that we bring to our human interaction,” as Susman puts it), and they did it with splashes of humor – three more principles from the book. 

Perhaps above all, they reflected on and honored their own past experiences, which is principle number nine.  

“I think there’s a lot to learn about the future by looking in the rearview mirror and remembering what you learned, how you did it, why it mattered, and what it meant to you,” Susman says. 

When I reflect on that event now, several years later, I can see the value it brought, stretching the skills of these leaders, and building trust up and down the global organization. 

Not all companies have the budget for such experimental events, or can spare senior executives to be so involved. But Susman’s 10 principles can be practiced at all levels, in all types of workplaces. The only requirement is the desire to break through. 

Listen to the Full Story

You can listen to or read my full 30-minute interview with Sally Susman if you're a Mind Tools member or if your employer is a Mind Tools for Business licensee.

If you're not already a member, join Mind Tools now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or you can find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching our Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up free to the Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

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Plan With Purpose: My Expert Interview With Dan Gardner https://www.mindtools.com/blog/plan-with-purpose-my-expert-interview-with-dan-gardner/ Thu, 27 Jul 2023 09:58:40 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=38028 "Several factors can make or break a project schedule and budget, most of them to do with planning." 

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Have you ever wondered why so many large infrastructure projects get delayed for years and end up massively over budget?  

Oxford University professor Bent Flyvbjerg did, and over the last 30 years, he’s built the world’s largest database of project outcomes, to find out why most projects miss their targets and a small minority don’t. 

He recently teamed up with the journalist Dan Gardner on a book called “How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors Behind Every Successful Project, From Home Renovations to Space Exploration.”  

In it, Gardner and Flyvbjerg identify several factors that can make or break a project schedule and budget, most of them to do with planning. 

The Power of a Plan

When I spoke to Gardner for our Mind Tools Expert Interview, he filled me in on the scope of Flyvbjerg’s groundbreaking research. 

Here's an excerpt. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

Throughout the book, the authors use the example of the renowned architect Frank Gehry, whose big projects consistently meet schedule and budget targets. 

They identify several reasons for this, all of which are applicable to much smaller projects – pretty much anything that needs to be planned. 

One reason for Gehry’s success is experiential learning – not through failed outcomes, but through an experimental planning phase.  

“We’re excellent experiential learners, but we’re really, really bad at trying to figure out a complex problem and coming up with a solution to that complex problem at the first go,” Gardner explains. “You don’t want to be putting yourself in that position. So instead, what you want is a planning process that basically creates experiential learning.” 

He told me that Frank Gehry starts by sketching out an idea, gets feedback on it, then sketches another one, gets feedback, and so on. Then he moves to 3D models, then into the digital space, and continues tweaking the idea, making it better each time, until it’s ready to enact.  

“His track record is stunning,” Gardner says. “He delivers on budget and on time over and over again, because he engages in precisely this iterative process.” 

In this way, the best “planning” is really “doing,” Gardner points out, because it includes experimentation and, in turn, improvement. Pixar Studios works the same way, in its meticulous creation of animated movies.  

Think From Right to Left

I can see how this approach would work well for any kind of product development, but it’s less relevant to projects that can’t be test driven, like a one-day conference. Another tip from the book is more widely applicable: “Think from right to left.”  

Imagine a project plan on a piece of paper, with conception on the left and delivery on the right. In planning, most people start on the left and move through the various stages until they get to the right. 

Gardner and Flyvbjerg noticed that projects work better if you reverse that and start by giving a lot of thought to the end of the process, on the right. 

Gardner explains: “We don’t build bridges to have bridges; we don’t build roads to have roads. We build bridges because they deliver some benefit; we build roads because they deliver some benefit.” 

This principle applies to projects of all sizes, like that one-day conference. Think about the experience you want the delegates to have. How do you want them to feel when they arrive, during the proceedings, and when they leave? What insight do you want them to take away with them, leading to what actions?  

When you know the answers to those questions, you can move back along the project line, making sure that all the pre-event activity contributes to those end goals. 

Know Your Reason

I wish I’d known about this approach when I renovated my kitchen a few years ago. Like most people, I started at the left of the project line, focusing on replacing what was already there with new appliances and materials. I never asked myself what problem I wanted to solve, or even why I was doing it in the first place. 

If I had, I think I would have ended up with two divergent choices. I might have concluded I was just bored with my kitchen. If I was just tired of the look, my appliances might have been perfectly fine for another few years, and a fresh coat of paint would have done the job. A lot of money and effort could have been spared. 

Alternatively, I might have realized that what I really wanted was to have a better space to entertain, and more room to practice my cooking skills. This might have led to a much bigger renovation, including removing walls and spending more money on appliances. Although this would have cost more, it would have added to my quality of life. 

Either of these outcomes would have been more suitable for me than the “same but new” kitchen I ended up with. 

It’s too late to change that now, but I’m grateful for this insight. Properly considering why we’re embarking on something can have a major impact on how we go about it – and we may conclude that we don’t need to go about it at all. 

Listen to the Full Story

You can listen to or read my full 30-minute interview with Dan Gardner if you're a Mind Tools member or if your employer is a Mind Tools for Business licensee.

If you're not already a member, join Mind Tools now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching our Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up free to the Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

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Aim for Excellent, Not Perfect: My Expert Interview With Morra Aarons-Mele  https://www.mindtools.com/blog/aim-for-excellent-not-perfect-my-expert-interview-with-morra-aarons-mele/ Thu, 29 Jun 2023 07:35:45 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=37814 "For some people, anxiety is a constant companion, even in situations where there’s no obvious reason for it. And it often goes hand in hand with a desire to achieve." 

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A multitude of things can make us anxious at work: a demanding boss, a lazy co-worker, a tough assignment. But for some people, anxiety is a constant companion, even in situations where there’s no obvious reason for it. And it often goes hand in hand with a desire to achieve. 

This connection was recognized by the entrepreneur and communications expert Morra Aarons-Mele and she explores it in her hit podcast, The Anxious Achiever. 

Anxiety’s Upside 

She has now written a book of that name, subtitled “Turn Your Biggest Fears Into Your Leadership Superpower.” When I spoke to Aarons-Mele for our latest Mind Tools Expert Interview, she explained how anxiety can be a double-edged sword. 

Here's an excerpt. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

For the anxious among us, it’s nice to know there can be an upside to the uncomfortable symptoms we often feel: racing heart, churning stomach, aching brain.  

The trick is to “look our anxiety in the face and work with it,” Aarons-Mele says. Then we can harness the powerful drivers of those symptoms to produce our best work and reduce our discomfort. 

Freeing Yourself From Thought Traps

In her book, she shines a light on what causes anxiety in conscientious people, including negative self-talk, all-or-nothing thinking, catastrophizing, and overthinking. In each case, she offers tips for escaping those thought traps. 

For example, if you can recognize that you’re catastrophizing, you can actively try to interrupt those thoughts with more rational ones.  

“I can literally try to replace the instantaneous thought of, ‘It’s all your fault. You suck. You’re getting fired,’ with, ‘Okay, maybe this wasn’t your best month. Let’s look at the data. Let’s try to just bring some more neutral information in. Let’s try to breathe. Even if you did get fired, let’s play out the worst-case scenario and see what would happen’,” she says. “That kind of interruption for me – and it’s evidence based – is really powerful.” 

Perfectionism Is Anxiety 

As a recovering perfectionist myself, I was interested that Aarons-Mele devotes a whole chapter to perfectionism. 

When I asked her why, she said that perfectionism is a common problem for anxious achievers, and it’s often misunderstood.  

“Perfectionism, I learned in my study, is not always being amazing and giving everything you’ve got and creating the most incredible product ever made. Perfectionism’s anxiety: it’s a sense that, ‘If I am not perfect, I’m not worth it’,” she told me. 

The Terrifying Typo 

On the face of it, the job of a writer and editor aligns positively with perfectionism. Being exceptionally careful about facts, grammar usage and spelling is the sweet spot of editorial work. In fact, the more perfectionist an editor is, the better – or so it always seemed to me. 

When I was editor-in-chief of a small weekly newspaper, I wore my perfectionism like a badge of honor. I invented processes for myself that demanded a lot of time and high levels of concentration. If I was editing an article, I’d never read it fewer than three times, proudly announcing to whoever would listen that I’d found something new to correct every time.  

But this extreme attention to detail wasn’t always helpful. I remember finding a typo in the small print of an advertising supplement freshly delivered from the printer. I was horrified. I picked up a pair of scissors and scratched at the misplaced letter until it was obliterated in a scruff of newsprint. Sleepless nights followed, punctuated by harebrained “solutions” like pulping the lot and reprinting a new, perfect batch of magazines.  

Remembering this incident now, I still feel mortified about the error, even though my rational mind reminds me that, as far as I know, no one noticed it. If they did, it had no consequences, which is more or less the same as no one noticing. 

Having heard Aarons-Mele’s take on this particular thought trap, I can see that my response to the typo was multifaceted. It was about producing the best product I could, but it was also about proving my own worth, to myself and other people. My motivation got tangled up, so that when I saw that tiny mistake in print, it registered with me as a total personal fail.  

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Let’s Be Excellent 

Perfectionists need to stand back and give themselves an easier time of it, Aarons-Mele believes. We control the urge to be perfect, not the other way around. 

“If we can moderate [perfectionism] and get it out of our way, as one of my favorite interviews in the book – Dr Thomas Greenspan – says, ‘We’ll still be excellent, just without all the attending anxiety’,” she reflects.  

But anxious achievers, don’t worry! This isn’t about lowering our standards. It’s about accepting that life happens and mistakes can slip through. And that “excellent” is – truly – as worthy an outcome as “perfect.” 

Listen to the Full Story

You can listen to or read my full 30-minute interview with Morra Aarons-Mele if you're a Mind Tools member or if your employer is a Mind Tools for Business licensee.

If you're not already a member, join Mind Tools now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching our Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up free to the Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

The post Aim for Excellent, Not Perfect: My Expert Interview With Morra Aarons-Mele  appeared first on Mind Tools.

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Collaborating With Challenging Colleagues: My Expert Interview With Amy Gallo https://www.mindtools.com/blog/collaborating-with-challenging-colleagues-my-expert-interview-with-amy-gallo/ Thu, 25 May 2023 15:24:28 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=37609 "Most of us don’t choose our coworkers. Yet we have to get along with them, whether we like them or not."

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Most of us don’t choose our coworkers. Yet we have to get along with them, whether we like them or not. If we can’t work together productively, there can be serious consequences, from mental health problems to business breakdown.  

Author Amy Gallo has assessed this issue over many years and has published her findings and insights in a new book, “Getting Along: How to Work with Anyone (Even Difficult People).” 

It’s packed with tips for dealing with specific types of difficult personality. But it also takes a bird's-eye view of the complexity of workplace relationships, and the importance of looking after your own mental health as you navigate them. 

Hang On to Your Integrity

I spoke to Gallo for our Mind Tools Expert Interview, and she spoke about staying true to yourself as you deal with difficult people. 

Here's an excerpt. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

Gallo’s book examines eight archetypes of difficult people: the insecure boss, the pessimist, the victim, the passive aggressive peer, the know-it-all, the tormentor, the biased co-worker, and the political operator.  

Most people will have worked with one or more of these archetypes. I certainly have. And after talking to Gallo, I realize that I could have handled those situations better. 

From Pessimist to "Disagreer-in-Chief"

For instance, I remember one pessimist I worked alongside in a busy radio newsroom, who became a figure of fun for the rest of us. We laughed at her constant whining, usually behind her back, and never took the time to listen properly to her concerns.  

If we had, we might have learned something. And she’d have felt like a valued member of the team and better able to do her best work. She might even have complained less. 

Gallo points out that if you’re able to look beyond their difficult behavior, pessimists can serve a useful purpose, because they may flag up serious problems that the rest of us can’t see.  

“You do want to hear those contrarian perspectives. You do want to hear someone who’s pointing out potential roadblocks or obstacles and what [might] happen,” she says.  

“We don’t want to let it dampen the mood of the team or the motivation of the team. We don’t want them to have more power than anyone else on the team. But, if we can sort of right-size their role and hear their perspective, I think it benefits everyone.” 

Gallo suggests that in some cases, pessimists could be given the role of “Disagreer-in-Chief,” charged with looking for the holes in plans or possible pitfalls ahead. That can lead to crucial conversations about mitigating the risks that they highlight. 

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From Victim to Validation

As well as pessimists, I’ve worked with my share of victims, who can be a tiresome suck on energy. Unlike the complaints of the doom-monger pessimist, the victim’s moaning is always just about them, and of very little use to others. 

One “victim” writer I worked with – Kate – was convinced that her editor didn’t take her experience seriously. She acted like every edit was a personal slight, and went into an obvious sulk if major rewrites were requested. 

Part of Gallo’s advice for working well with victims is to encourage them to take responsibility for whatever is upsetting them. Ask them directly why they believe they’re not to blame – and importantly, listen to the answer. 

Kate left her job after a few painful months. If I reflect on that situation now, I can see that she may have had a point. She didn’t get on with the capricious editor-in-chief, who – yes, in retrospect – didn’t value Kate’s eclectic experience. He probably did give her a harder time than other writers on the team.  

If someone had listened at the time, Kate could have been assigned to a different editor. The rewrite requests might have continued, but coming from someone else, they might have felt like valuable feedback, rather than a personal insult. This small change would have saved a lot of time and hassle recruiting her replacement. 

Understanding Others' Perspectives

Dealing with other people is complicated. Emotions flare up, positions get entrenched. But it always helps to remember that the person with the difficult behavior might be right. And we might be wrong.  

Gallo says we should beware of “naïve realism”: when we think we’re seeing the truth, clear as day, but what we’re actually seeing is our own point of view. 

“There are many other ways to view the situation,” Gallo says. “There’s the way your colleague sees it. There’s the way people outside the dynamic see it, your boss sees it. And those will all be different perspectives and that’s okay.”  

After all, we don’t all need to agree on everything to get along. We just need to agree to get along.  

Listen to the Full Story

You can listen to or read my full 30-minute interview with Amy Gallo if you're a Mind Tools member or if your employer is a Mind Tools for Business licensee.

If you're not already a member, join Mind Tools now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching our Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up free to the Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

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"If you trust your employees..." Liam Martin on Asynchronous Work https://www.mindtools.com/blog/liam-martin-asynchronous-work/ Thu, 27 Apr 2023 19:22:32 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=37417 "If you trust your employees enough to have access to all of that information then you actually start to see some really magical things occur."

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We’ve heard a lot about the pros and cons of remote work in the last few years. But the business leader and author Liam Martin thinks it’s more useful to talk about "asynchronous" work.

This is all about when you do your work, rather than where you do it. And it’s usually remote, but not always.

With a traditional synchronous model, you and your team will keep similar hours, meeting and working together in real time – maybe online, maybe face to face. With asynchronous work, people do their part whenever they want or need to. And rather than talking to colleagues, they find out what to do by tapping into systems and databases.

Does that sound appealing to you, or a little bit isolating? Well, according to Martin, it depends on how it’s done.

The Asynchronous Mindset

Martin recently shared his experiences and tips in a new book, co-written with his business partner Rob Rawson, called “Running Remote: Master the Lessons From the World’s Most Successful Remote-Work Pioneers.” And it's a Wall Street Journal and Publishers Weekly Bestseller.

When I talked to him for the latest Mind Tools Expert Interview, Martin explained the “asynch mindset,” based on “deliberate over-communication, democratized workflow, and detailed metrics."

Here's an excerpt. (You can stream the audio clip below or read a transcript here.)

My Experience of Asynchronous Working

As an independent journalist, I’ve spent many years working remotely and asynchronously, with mixed results.

Image of front cover of Liam Martin's book "Running Remote" including the strapline: "Master the lessons from the world's most successful remote-work pioneers" and an endorsement from Cal Newport: "A critical guide to thriving in the world of asynchronous work."

When I was doing a master’s degree in the U.K., asynchronous work offered a financial lifeline. I was an associate editor for a New York-based magazine, and I edited articles while my editor slept, sending completed work in time for when he switched on in the morning. This situation suited all of us.

Earlier in my career, I was the Mexico correspondent of an American business magazine. Based in Mexico City, I worked alone, day after day, keeping in touch with my editor in Houston via email and occasionally text and phone.

I thrived on the autonomy this gave me, and loved coming up with new ideas for the magazine that I could run with, without anyone else weighing in. This kind of grassroots decision making is one of the positive features of asynchronous working, according to Martin.

But on the downside, it was sometimes difficult to motivate myself, and the days could drag. And if I needed a quick answer to something specific and unusual, which wasn’t in any policy or guidance document, well, “quick” was rarely an option. I had to wait until my editor came back online.

In-Person Communication Wins

Looking back on these experiences, I find the faces of my editors swimming into focus. Because we did meet up occasionally, and it is those face-to-face interactions that stand out most vividly when I think of those jobs.

Although a passionate advocate of asynchronous working, Martin agrees that synchronous communication remains an important piece of the remote-working puzzle. In fact, in his own hierarchy of communication, “in-person” comes top, and every year, his own company holds a face-to-face retreat for all its employees.

“We’ve recognized that synchronous time is so important to be able to, number one, build rapport between all of our different team members and trust, but also allow us to be able to really close the chapter on one year of the business and open up another chapter in the business,” he explains.

"We’ve recognized that synchronous time is so important to build rapport and trust."

Liam Martin

There are two reasons why they don’t do it more often: cost and efficiency. It’s expensive to get everyone in the same place, and it takes much longer to disseminate information in real time, rather than via a prepared document. Plus, with written information, you know that every recipient gets exactly the same message, and people can refer to it as often as they like.

Martin’s hierarchy of communication continues with voice and video calls, instant messaging, and finally email, as the foundation holding up the pyramid.

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Be in Tune if Not in Synch

But however you communicate in asynchronous teams, perhaps what matters most is the attitude of team members.

I once worked with a graphic designer whose location changed from week to week. Over the course of one project, he moved from Spain to Mexico to Colombia.

The time zone changed, but his efficiency and excellent communication didn’t. The project ran smoothly, with great results. But I know that if he’d dropped the ball, even for one day, I would have railed against his digital nomad lifestyle!

Liam Martin’s model of remote asynchronous work relies on every member of the team being a hardworking self-starter, who will always read attachments to emails, no matter how long and dense they look, and will never feel sub-par or distracted or lonely.

If the pandemic has taught us anything, it’s that working in isolation doesn’t suit everyone. So I can understand why managers continue with the synchronous model, despite the allure of its opposite. It may be slower and more costly, but it fits how humans behave. And while it’s still humans doing much of the work, that makes a lot of sense.

Listen to the Full Story

You can listen to or read my full 30-minute interview with Liam Martin if you're a Mind Tools Club member or if your employer is a Mind Tools for Business licensee.

Martin and Rawson's book carries a prominent endorsement by Cal Newport, another expert we've already featured on Mind Tools. Search his name at the top of this page, and you'll find our in-depth review of his book "Deep Work" and our exclusive Expert Interview with him.

If you're not already a member, join the Mind Tools Club now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching our Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up free to the Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

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"I'm Not More or Less: I Just Am" – Emily Ladau on Disability https://www.mindtools.com/blog/not-more-or-less-just-am-emily-ladau-disability/ Thu, 02 Mar 2023 11:50:00 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=37021 "Systemic ableism is shutting people out because we're not actively thinking." Allies can change that, person by person, moment by moment.

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I recently spoke with the disability rights advocate Emily Ladau for a Mind Tools Expert Interview, and she opened my eyes to the ableism that is all around us.

Only the other day I was on a busy train, with very few spare seats. One couple had a surprising amount of space, occupying a table for four, with their bags spread around them. I watched as passenger after passenger walked past that table, their eyes flicking away, rather than asking the pair to move their things.

And, this time, I wondered if it had anything to do with the fact that the man had dwarfism. Could this really be why no one sat with them?

Disability in an Ableist World

Some ableism is systemic, like a lack of accessible infrastructure in schools, offices and transportation hubs. It can also be internalized.

We may talk over a neurodivergent colleague, mistaking a pause for the end of her point. Or avoid someone who looks different on a train, as I witnessed.

According to Ladau, this is about our perception of disability and disabled people – sometimes as superhuman, more commonly as subhuman. But we can change that.

Here’s what she told me, in our interview. (You can stream the audio clip below or download a transcript here.)

To explore these ideas, I’d recommend reading Emily Ladau’s book, "Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to be an Ally." It’s a clear, nonjudgmental guide to helping make the world a more accessible and inclusive place.

The idea of "allyship" is central to this goal, but what does that really mean?

Emily Ladau's book cover design, comprising a central square panel with the title and subtitle surrounded by about 50 small brightly colored quirky cartoon illustrations of people of all races, genders, ages, and disabilities greeting and chatting, and using a variety of assistance animals and equipment - including Emily herself in her powered chair.
"Demystifying Disability" book cover design

How (Not) to Be a Disability Ally

"We can very easily fall into the trap of looking at it as a title that we give ourselves," Ladau notes. "But… it’s really about taking meaningful action."

In fact, she suggests that we think of the word "ally" as a verb, not a noun, because it’s about doing things, not just talking about it. We should actively educate ourselves, with an open mind, and learn about experiences beyond our own.

Part of that is recognizing that every disabled person is an individual, with a host of different characteristics and support needs. Or, in Ladau’s words, "If you’ve met one disabled person, you’ve met one disabled person."

It's Not About You

If we don’t focus on the individual, we can make all sorts of wrong assumptions that can end up causing problems. We might think we’re being an ally by steering a blind person across a road, or pushing someone’s wheelchair up a slope. But if we’d just asked that person, we might have discovered they didn’t want that. And they may have needed something else. 

So the action allies take must be collaborative, not well-meaning gestures they impose on a person or group. As Ladau points out, doing something for disabled people and working with them are two very different things.  

"In one, you are essentially erasing the very person who you’re claiming to advocate for, whereas when you’re doing things side by side, what you’re doing is you’re amplifying the perspective of the person who you’re trying to be an ally to. And I think it’s essential to recognize that difference."

It’s a mindset shift that can only happen through open conversation. 

Disability Inclusion or Exclusion?

As someone who "navigates the world on wheels," as she puts it, Ladau has had a lifetime of dealing with ableism. I’m still thinking about a particular example from her book – it encapsulates a lot of the issues she’s working to change...

When Ladau was at college, a resident assistant in her dorm was running a disability awareness event. Did this person invite Ladau along to talk with participants about her life on wheels? No. Instead, they asked to borrow Ladau’s wheelchair, so that participants could use it to go around an obstacle course they’d set up in the lounge. 

What was Ladau supposed to do while her expensive mobility equipment – her only means of getting about – was being used like a toy? She declined the request, saddened by this missed opportunity to engage with and educate nondisabled people about her experiences, herself. 

“I remember feeling like less of a person in that moment,” Ladau writes.

"I remember feeling like less of a person in that moment."

Ableism makes people feel like that, as well as causing numerous practical and logistical problems for disabled people as they go about their day-to-day lives. Allies can help change that, person by person, moment by moment. 

Beyond the Infrastructure 

In the workplace, managers can be allies by “creating an environment where people feel safe and welcome to show up as their whole selves at work and to be open about their disability experiences... giving people the space to speak up for what they need to thrive.”

But Ladau concludes, "I want people to understand that allyship is very much a journey and not a destination. 

"You can listen to a podcast episode, you can read an article, you can watch a documentary, you can attend a webinar or have a conversation with a disabled person. But that doesn’t mean that you stop there.  

"My best advice is to keep learning, to keep going, to seek out new resources and new ways to learn and new ways to engage."

The Full Story

You can listen to my full 30-minute interview with Emily Ladau if you're a Mind Tools Club member, or a Mind Tools for Business licensee. You'll hear about her time on iconic children's TV show "Sesame Street" and how being disabled cuts across all other identities. As ever, the audio comes with a full transcript.

If you're not already signed up, join the Mind Tools Club now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ Expert Interviews. Or find out more about Mind Tools for whole organizations, big or small, by contacting our enterprise team.

Meanwhile, catch more excerpts and insights from my guests by searching the Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up to the new Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

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Faisal Hoque on Transformational Leadership: Expert Interview https://www.mindtools.com/blog/faisal-hoque-transformational-leadership-expert-interview/ Thu, 29 Dec 2022 12:01:00 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/?p=36363 Transformational Leadership values both empathy and productivity, and we need it to face the four challenges of our time.

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The pandemic shook up our lives and prompted a rethink for many of us. For author and entrepreneur Faisal Hoque, it led to a new book: “LIFT: Fostering the Leader in You Amid Revolutionary Global Change.

Hoque realized that the disruption caused by COVID-19 was one of four huge changes we’re experiencing at the moment, the others being climate change, technological advances, and misinformation. To navigate these choppy waters, he advocates transformational leadership, combined with systemic thinking and experiential learning.

When I spoke to Hoque for the latest Mind Tools Expert Interview, he explained that his theories stretch back to his childhood in Bangladesh, a country where drought and flooding often threaten the lives of millions.

He grew up adapting to constant change, a skill that helped him thrive despite a series of personal setbacks in later life, and that he has successfully translated to the world of work through his writing and consultancy.

Transformation Through Experience

Transformational leaders are driven “by empathy, inspiration and influence,” Hoque says. And in this clip from our conversation, he shows how experiential learning and transformational leadership are linked.

(There’s lots more about transformational leadership on Mind Tools, including its history, and advice on how to become a transformational leader.)

Command and Control Is Dead

Hoque points out that this type of leader stands in stark contrast to the “transactional” leaders more common in the past, who are “all about the bottom line” and drive “maximum return with minimal investments.”

This sounds like the owner of a business magazine I worked for in New York – a man named Arthur. He led our small team from the top down, literally! He worked in a top-floor office and never showed his face in editorial, two floors below.

Rachel Salaman
Mind Tools Expert Interview host,
Rachel Salaman

Although we only knew him from photos, we had to comply with his frequent diktats. For example, all women had to wear skirts and "feminine" shoes, and there was a minimum number of hours we had to spend at our desks, regardless of our workloads.

Unsurprisingly, morale was low and mutiny was simmering. And staff turnover was high, which added to stress levels. Whenever someone quit, other people were lumbered with their work, or were sidetracked by the search for their replacement.

If he’d noticed these negatives, Arthur would likely have doubled down on his command-and-control approach.

Empathy Plus Process Wins

People often think leadership comes in mutually exclusive shades. You can either be firm and process-driven, or open and empathetic. Being both doesn’t seem viable.

But for Hoque, transformational leadership can work hand-in-hand with a rigorous business-centric mindset. In fact, each one enhances the other.

“If you think about transformational leadership, it’s kind of your cultural element and your guiding post to get people rallied behind you,” he says. “Then you have to give people the exact path… a combination of process, tracking and management, matrix and measurement that makes sure that things are actually getting done.”

This approach was modeled brilliantly by a radio news editor I had early in my career, a woman called Juliet. Unlike Arthur, she didn’t give a hoot what we wore, as long as it fitted our assignments for that day.

She sat in the newsroom with us, writing news items and broadcasting bulletins. Despite being busy, she always made time to answer the many questions from her keen yet inexperienced team – with proper focus and engagement.

I remember one morning, I arrived for the early shift at 5 a.m. and a huge news story had broken in our patch overnight. I was alone in the newsroom and I didn’t know what to do. So I rang Juliet at home.

Calmly, she listened to the police report I’d picked up, and then coached me toward the best way to cover the story.

Empowered by her input, I verified the facts, tracked down a witness, recorded an interview, and wrote up the story, with audio clips. It led the morning bulletins – and we were way ahead of the local competition.

Approachable Leadership Transforms

Looking back, what impresses me is not just Juliet’s sound and helpful response. It’s that she was available to talk at 5 a.m. – and that I felt I could wake her up for advice.

She’d created a well-run, professional environment where people outperformed expectations, and she’d done it with empathy and understanding, so that people felt safe to ask for help.

Leaders in other industries may never be woken at dawn by a rookie colleague. But being truly available to team members during office hours could make a big difference to the success of the organization, especially now. Turbulent times call for calm, thoughtful leadership.

“It’s that conscious practice of empathy, to listen and to understand where people are coming from, and as a result, designing your work environment and your way forward,” Hoque says. “[That] becomes monumental if you want to succeed.”

Get the Full Interview – and Many More!

Mind Tools Club members and Mind Tools for Business licensees can listen to my full 30-minute interview with Faisal Hoque. It comes with a complete transcript for ease of review and accessibility.

If you're not already signed up, join the Mind Tools Club now to gain unlimited access to 2,400+ resources, including our back catalog of 200+ audio Expert Interviews. And to find out more about Mind Tools' enterprise solutions, you can book a demo with one of our team.

Meanwhile, you can read and hear more, for free, by searching the Expert Interview blog topic and by signing up to the new Mind Tools Expert Voices podcast.

Your Opinion on Transformational Leadership

How do you lead and manage in turbulent times? What style of leadership does your organization enable and encourage, and what's the impact? Share your experiences and tips in the Comments, below!

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David Robson's Expectation Effect: My Expert Interview https://www.mindtools.com/blog/expert-interview-blog-david-robson/ https://www.mindtools.com/blog/expert-interview-blog-david-robson/#comments Tue, 19 Jul 2022 07:00:00 +0000 https://www.mindtools.com/blog/?p=30232 Rachel Salaman talks to science writer David Robson about "expectation effects," and why we may need to change our approach to happiness

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A friend of mine once burned her arm on her stove. A large welt quickly arose, which blistered and slowly healed over several days. This might not sound remarkable – until I tell you that the stove was cold.

Rachel Salaman: host of the Mind Tools Expert Interview podcast.

She thought she'd turned it on, and when she accidentally touched the metal, she expected to get burned. To her brain, that expectation mattered more than the fact that there was no heat at all.

This is an example of the "nocebo" effect, when a negative expectation delivers a negative result. It's the opposite of the placebo effect, when belief in a positive outcome creates a positive outcome.

Getting What You Expect

The science writer David Robson has been exploring how these phenomena can help us in all sorts of ways.

He's recently brought his research together in a fascinating new book, "The Expectation Effect: How Your Mindset Can Transform Your Life," which I discussed with him in our Expert Interview podcast.

In this audio clip, David outlines the history and science behind the placebo effect, which first emerged in the world of medicine.


Robson's research shows that "expectation effects" – where expectation has a measurable and significant impact on effect – can happen in all areas of life.

"When we're doing exercise, when we're dieting... [expectation] can affect our sleep and how we deal with sleep loss, how we respond to stress – all of these things can be shaped by our expectations with really profound results," he says.

Don't Stress About Stress!

In Robson's book, there's a whole chapter on "de-stressing stress," where I was surprised to read that worrying about being anxious, which feels so modern, actually stretches back more than 100 years. Foreshadowing Bobby McFerrin's hit song urging us to "be happy," some people in the 19th century established Don't Worry Clubs. These were intended to combat unnecessary stress and generate the happiness that members believed was essential for good health.

"There was always this idea that stress and anxiety, however we experience them, are inherently bad for us... and what the recent research says is that's not necessarily true," David Robson says. "It actually depends on your attitudes and beliefs about stress and anxiety [as to] whether they harm you or whether they might actually sometimes be quite useful sources of energy."

Specifically, we can harness the "adaptive value of anxious feelings" – and then tap into their potential advantages.

Make Your Anxiety Work for You

"One of these advantages is when your heart is beating really quickly, it's pumping lots of blood to your brain," Robson explains. "It's carrying oxygen and glucose to your brain cells, which will sharpen your thinking. Similarly, even the stress hormones like cortisol can actually help to improve your mental acuity."

So rather than being worried about being worried, creating a downward spiral of negativity, we can reframe anxiety as helpful – with surprising results.

"When you shift [into] that mindset… what happens is that people do actually start to use the anxiety as a source of energy," Robson says. "And that can be seen in things like their performance on exams, their performance at public speaking."

Robson tells me that he uses this technique himself, and to good effect. He used to be more of a worrier.

"It's just so much easier for me to reconfigure my thoughts in that way, to just feel the feelings and to acknowledge them and to not try to deny them. But to also just recognize that they could be useful to me," he shares.

Don't Worry, Be Happy?

That debunks "don't worry." What about "be happy"? Robson has some thoughts.

He argues that the relentless pursuit of happiness creates "a negative expectation effect." If we labor under the belief that we should always try to be happy, when we feel anger, disappointment or frustration, we experience a sense of failure and even shame. It's another downward spiral.

His advice is to recast those negative emotions as useful messengers of something important.

Take feeling disappointment, for example. "Disappointment is really horrible to experience, but actually it's helping to tell you that the goal that you were trying to achieve really mattered, and that maybe you can learn something from your failure," David Robson suggests.

So just as with anxiety, we should sit with unexpected unhappiness, however uncomfortable, and think about how it might be beneficial.

"What the research shows is that people who do that, who have a more accepting attitude to negative feelings and who see meaning in their negative feelings, they actually show a lot better kind of mental health and physical health," Robson says.

It's refreshing to think that both stress and unhappiness can be good for the mind and body – if we change the way we deal with them, and change our expectations around them. It might not prevent us from burning ourselves on a cold oven, but it could make a positive difference to our mood and productivity in our everyday lives.

Listen to My Interview With David Robson

Discover fascinating insights from some of the world's leading business figures with my series of Mind Tools Expert Interviews.

If you're not a Mind Tools Club member, you can join here, and access over 2,400 resources, including more than 200 Expert Interviews. For enterprise licensing, request a demo from one of our team.

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